Tuesday, September 16, 2008

Re: [blackantiwar] Fw: The Fall of AmericaTuesday, September 16, 2008 2:12 PM
From: "Amirib@aol.com" View contact details To: jmarvinx@yahoo.com

Lil Joe is a Trotskyist His God is a dead white man
--Amiri Baraka

In a message dated 9/16/2008 10:07:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jmarvinx@yahoo.com writes:
Lil Joe, thank you for slapping me upside the head for downing the Marxist analysis of society and those brothers and sisters who had a clear vision of "what's going on" for a long time. I stand corrected, although you need to read Elijah on "The Decline of the Dollar" and other writings on economics, as in The Fall of America. As I listen to the news this morning, it is crystal clear to me the capitalists are more socialist than socialists, but only when it comes to their brother/sister capitalists in danger of losing what they have stolen and robbed from the masses. As I write, they are bailing out the blood sucking bankers with unlimited billions from the US treasury while the poor and workers go about with empty pockets, the streets full of baby prostitutes working for food. It seems to me that if this is how the capitalists crumble under pressure, why is it so impossible for us revolutionaries to put mass pressure on them for our agenda, including reparations, national sovereignty, land and whatever else we desire as a people. Why are we not demanding the billions and trillions we need for our national aspirations. Surely, a few days or weeks of a general strike will make the capitalist bandits say, "Let's make a deal." Meanwhile, the capitalist bloodsuckers of the poor will continue bailing out each other, practicing their primitive communism as the masses go down, down, down, believing a better day is coming. Obama, as transformer, has inspired the people. Will he be able to transact any business for our national aspirations, it is doubtful since he can hardly utter the word black without being accused of partiality. His foreign policy is indeed reactionary and no better than Bush/McCain--the stupid idea of attacking Pakistan revealed his desire to appear Hawkish, yet it reveals raw ignorance since Pakistan has the ultimate weapon to deter aggression from the US or anyone else. --Marvin X

--- On Tue, 9/16/08, Lil Joe wrote:

From: Lil Joe
Subject: Fwd: [blackantiwar] Fw: The Fall of America
To: blackantiwar@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 8:17 AM

Hello Marvin, You know that I acknowledge you as a critical thinker and [subjectively, i.e. an honest] revolutionary, and I respect your religion. However, we here have a disagreement which was the revolutionary side of the historical critique of capitalism - what you call "America" - the Nation of Islam i.e. Elijah Muhammad, or the Marxist e.g. C.L.R. James. You wrote: "The fall of America was foretold by Elijah but his teachings were rejected by the Black intellectuals in Crisis whose Marxist analysis was not crystal clear on this point." Reply:I don't know what "Black intellectuals in Crisis" you are writing in reference to. If you are referring to the book "Crisis of the Negro Intellectual", written as the pro-capitalist's black bourgeois "intellectual" Harold Cruz, who attacked Blacks for becoming revolutionary class struggle communists, personified by the teacher played by Denzil Washington in the film on a Black Debating club, who also organized Black and white sharecroppers in the evenings, this is the kind of person Cruz was attacking and the NOI called "assimilationists" and "integrationists", these black communists knew exactly what they were doing. The foremost "Black intellectual" who openly declared himself a communist revolutionary was C.L.R. James, who mastered both Hegel and Marx. Yes, he rejected prophesy and Elijah as a prophet, and Elijah's teaching that the white man is a 'devil' and the "fall of America" being accomplished by earth quakes, floods, and other natural disasters, being directed by Black aliens in space ships from "the Mother Ship". James was a clear thinking Marxist concerning the collapse of capitalism engendered by its internal material contradictions, and of working class revolution in response to it:, He wasn't a "Black intellectual in Crisis". This, for instance is from an article by C.L.R. James:
Marxism and the IntellectualsA review of Raymond Williams' Culture and Society and The Long Revolution
I. The Creative Power of the Working Class
"Honor to whom honor is due. There is a campaign on by the capitalist class in all the advanced countries to prove that capitalism is so affluent, that is to say, so prosperous that workers everywhere are becoming middle class. The rulers of society want to imply that not only has capitalism solved what Marxists say it cannot solve its, economic difficulties, but they want to throw water on the idea that socialism is an inherent need for working people. Where, as in England, there is a powerful Labor Party, they want to encourage voters to vote middle class, i.e. to abandon the idea that as workers they have their special political interests. By the same means they want to encourage voters everywhere to vote for reactionary parties. Raymond Williams, the English socialist writer, has given that bold example of capitalist lying propaganda a knock-out blow which I gladly reproduce. This is what he says:- "Before World War II the condition of the working class in England was a world-wide scandal. Poverty, unemployment, social degradation in many "depressed areas" seemed permanent. Undoubtedly the Labor victory in 1945 improved working class conditions of life. What is called "prosperity" is that the worst of the of the shocking conditions have been eliminated. The Conservatives accepted the change and promised, if they got back to power, not to go back to the old days. They have got back to power since 1951. They spend a vast amount of their resources and energy seeking to convince ordinary Se that, owing to this new prosperity, labor must now desert the very idea of labor politics. ... "But Mr. Williams can say with some justification: if the class has not made the decisive step, has not faced the necessity of thinking its own thoughts and working out its own actions, what do you expect me to do? Here we come face to face with another fundamental of Marxism, the inevitability of socialism. It is possible that Mr. Williams believes this to be Marxist jargon, or a phrase to keep up the spirits of devoted fanatics. It is in reality the key to any serious Marxist political analysis of socialism. Marx did not use it as an incitement. It can be said that philosophically he never accepted it as truth, as absolute truth. Over and over again he carefully said: socialism or barbarism. That is to say, either the working class establishes the socialist society or the contradictions of capitalism will lead society to barbarism. The precise meaning of barbarism is a matter for debate, for those who wish to. For my part, not only were Fascism and Stalinism barbarisms (literally), but the ultimate in human barbarism has been reached when the most powerful statesmen of today organize their societies with the physical destruction of total societies as their main object. This is due to the necessity of preserving what they very rightly call their way of life. Marx's inevitability of socialism was a philosophical, a theoretical postulate, a necessity of thought, based on his conviction that capitalism would inevitably end as it is ending. With this postulate you approach every political, every social, every economic problem or set of circumstances; you look for those forces, movements, objective or subjective, which advance the cause of socialism and hasten the destruction of capitalism." http://www.marxists .org/archive/ james-clr/ works/1962/ destruction- paper/ch01. htm
You wrote:"But Elijah told you the dollar would be floating in the street soon and very soon. He told you men's hearts would be failing them due to the fear caused by the fall of the international finance system called Global capitalism or imperialism. He told you this in his book Fall of America. But you intellectual Negroes are so smart you have outsmarted yourselves, thus your crisis." Reply: I am not familiar with Elijah Muhammad doing and presenting any analysis of material use value and exchange value of commodities, money as the commodity commensurate with other commodities as use value and exchange value, becoming use value as exchange value embodied and quantified in gold, silver, nickle and copper to serve as means of circulation of commodities, currency displacing material money and inflation; nor, am I familiar with any of Elijah Muhammad's treatise or articles on finance capital and its collapse. In any event, it is great to see you writing as you have done in this piece. Yet, it sames a contradiction that you refer to America and its political system as evil, the Beast and the Great Whore, on a divinely ordained path to destruction; but, at the same time, you endorse Obama and the Democrats - a party that is part of the peopling of this "Beast"/ "Great Whore" - as the party and the man to save "America" the "Beast" and "Great Whore, from its divinely engineered "fall" Lil Joe
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Marvin X Jackmon Date: Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 10:03 PMSubject: [blackantiwar] Fw: The Fall of AmericaTo: blackantiwar@ yahoogroups. com, TheAfrikanConscious nessCenter@ yahoogroups. com, theblacklist@ lists.riseup. net--- On Tue, 9/16/08, Marvin X Jackmon wrote: From: Marvin X Jackmon Subject: The Fall of America To: jmarvinx@yahoo. com Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 5:00 AM The Fall of America The fall of America was foretold by Elijah but his teachings were rejected by the Black intellectuals in Crisis whose Marxist analysis was not crystal clear on this point. But Elijah told you the dollar would be floating in the street soon and very soon. He told you men's hearts would be failing them due to the fear caused by the fall of the international finance system called Global capitalism or imperialism. He told you this in his book Fall of Amerca. But you intellectual Negroes are so smart you have outsmarted yourselves, thus your crisis. You can't figure your asses from a hole in the ground. You see American falling before your very eyes, yet you are dumbfounded on the reality before your eyes. The Great Beast cannot fall, not yet, he must recover, it is only a matter of time. No, brother, this is the fall of the Great Whore, Babylon the Great. And you may fall with him unless you pull your nuts out of the sand and get a grip on your Divinity. Keep thinking Sunni Islam can save you, or any other religiosity full of reaction rather than a radical destruction of the status quo. All your prayers are for naught, your meaningless praying and fasting can go to the winds that you see in the hurricanes blowing your asses into the skies from city to city, state to state. Pray and see of God will help you in your pitiful hour of need. This is the end for you and your master, whether white, Arab, Asian, European, African or whatever. They shall go down with you in your iniquity. You persist in hanging around the rich man's gate while he is suffering in misery because of his greed and desire for domination.

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