Comment from Zahieb Mwongozi
It has been said that a boy is not a man until his father is dead. In his post "Marvin X Speaks" which was directed to a few of us on this line, Marvin makes several key points, and goes a long way toward establishing, what I have been suggesting to Brother Lil Joe in many of my conversations with him on this network, there are protocols we all must follow for most of the things we do in life.
Marvin makes the point that "A teacher is only as good as his students or the fruit he produces from his tree of knowledge." But as I have said "A boy is not a man until his father is dead", and at some point there is the time at which, to quote Marvin "Sons go their way."
This is to say that, just because there are disagreements between brothers, there need not be "a death in the family", ala Cain and Able. Points of departure occur, but when they do this can also be the point at which the dynamic for change, and this context, evolution may begin.
In Quantum mechanics, there is a method for calculating values on the atomic and sub-atomic level. This is kind of like how Newtonian mechanics can be used to calculate values on a larger scale. Newtonian formulas can predict where a rock will fall if someone throws it in the air. Quantum formulas try to do the same thing for atoms.
With Newtonian physics, real-world physics, one specific answer always comes up. It may not be the right answer since, for example, some factor may be forgotten, or some measurement may be misread, but it is always a single answer. Quantum physics however, always produces more than one answer, ALL of which are technically, mathematically correct. It's called "indeterminacy." Newton says the rock will land HERE; Quantum Mechanics says that the rock will land HERE and HERE and HERE.
What we have in Marvin is a clear philosophical point of origin and a cultural trajectory. However, when it comes to the independent aspect of each individual's expression of this fact, there are times when the chips will just have to land where they fall. This is tantamount to "philosophical indeterminancy". Every kettle, therefore, sits on its own bottom.
Of a certainty, I am not always "right" and I know that sometimes I may be seen to not be acting right, but my intent should, of necessity, always be measured. You have to know where I'm coming from to understand where I'm trying to go. So when we are in church and I'm trying to take my rightful place in the pew but step on a few toes, know that my heart is as big, or bigger than my foot. Accept any apologies which are due. My mouth can get quite big too, probably stretched from all the times I have put my foot in it.
But I am prepared to go toe to toe, head up with any writer or thinker when it comes to fighting for what I stand for. I have earned the right to fight from wherever I stand, and I am comforted in the knowledge that none of my enemies are on this network, of which is Marvin X is the standard bearer.
--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Marvin X Jackmon
From: Marvin X Jackmon
Subject: Re: [blackantiwar] Marvin X Speaks
Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 1:30 AM
From: Marvin X Jackmon
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:25:29 PM
Subject: [blackantiwar] Marvin X Speaks
A teacher is only as good as his students or the fruit he produces from his tree of knowledge. I know I have top students who I have learned from as well, throughout the years. Lil Joe and Zaieb are two of them, both very talented, Joe in the theory of revolution and Zaieb in the arts. Lil Joe and his comrades from southern California assisted me when I was fighting to teach at Fresno State University. I am humbled by the support they gave me, coming all the way up to San Francisco to support me at my draft trial or for refusing to fight in Vietnam. It is a long journey from LA to SF, but Lil Joe and his comrades made the trip in revolutionary solidarity.
So I thank him and them for their support. Zahieb Mwongozi had great talent as an actor, singer, poet. He performed the lead role of Marvin X in the Laney College Theatre's production of my play In the Name of Love, 1981. It was a complex role as I am a complex character--as his brother Rudi, a great pianist, said, who could play the role of Marvin X except another crazy motherfucker like Marvin X. So Zahieb performed the role. You can seem him on Youtube in In the Name of Love..
Now having said the above, there is much Zahieb can learn from Lil Joe, Gerald Ali and others on Black Anti-War, including Sam Anderson and others. Zahieb, mainly an artist, is no match for the well seasoned Lil Joe and Gerald Ali, so he really should be silent and work on his personal development, spiritual especially.
Talking loud and saying nothing is something Ancestor James Brown told us about. Show us the product of yur labor under the sun.
Huey said to me, "Jackmon, what is your program?" So I say to you all, what is your program, and let it be anything besides talk.
Surely you want to help the deaf, dumb and blind, not pontificate as some ghetto intellectual. Surely, we must be bout it bout it, as the young girls taught me many years ago.
Let us finish the task we started, there is time. Sieze the time as Bobby Seale told us. My students should study the example of their teacher. Less talk, more work.. If I don't come to the photo shoot drunk, don't you come drunk. If I don't talk about the Mythology of Pussy in the presence of women who have problems with the term, don't you mention it. Take ques from your teacher. And when you have a lesson for him, give it up, otherwise shut the fuck up and remain silent until called upon in this classroom called life.
From: craig erving
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:29:30 PM
Subject: [blackantiwar] Is Lil Joe Throwing In The Towel?
Lil Joe, are you throwing in the towel? Listen, you are right when you speak about the healthfullness and helpfulness of an internal polemic. In fact I am inclined to believe that this entire network would be farce if there was continued agreement on all fronts. After all, if we all agreed on here we'd be preaching to the choir and I personally don't find that useful.
The idea here is that you can't get trapped into wanting to "win" each discussion. Opinions are like assholes - everybody has one. But I don't think that nobody wants to be one.
The fact of the matter is that you, I must admit, are a rather interesting voice on this line. But I have once to hear Gerald, or anyone on this line "attack" Rachel Corrie, Martin L. King, Desmond Tutu, etc..as you have stated. What I see consistently being attacked are your points. Rather than trying to make "points" just continue to try to come up with good supports for your positions. In all fairness, you will probably continue to fail at doing this but without you or your positions (or lack thereof) it just wouldn't be as fun and illuminating on here.
Stop taking things personally - Cynthia McKinney's record stands for itself and she can probably take care of herself too. Let's see if be more than a one hit wonder and stop sounding like a broken record. There are plenty of wars for us to discuss, not just the one or two we seem to have gotten stuck in like a needle in scratched groove.
Here's some more word play for you: The root of the word ignorant is ignore.. If you start ignoring people on this line, since this is supposed to be a struggle for truth, this will mean that you are the loser.
--- On Fri, 7/31/09, Lil Joe
From: Lil Joe
Subject: [blackantiwar] Gerald's provacative lie as Subject: "Adaoma finally admits support for Zionism".
Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 11:32 PM
Gerald has continued to attack Cynthia McKinney and other anti-war activists, this is an anti-war list and all he does is attack people who oppsed the wars. Today he has tried to sow seeds of dissentions between list members - yourself, Craig, Miles, Marvin and me, which makes me wonder what's his purpose here. It certainly isn;t to oppose the US war in Iraq or Aghhanistan, which he never oppose. I think it best he be denied his efforts to cause conflict and tare the list apart by getting us to fight each other rather than fight US policy, Don't get me wrong. It is heathy to have internal polemics, so long as we have a common enemy and a common objective - the common enmy being the warfare state and the common objective being to stop it.
But, I have never read anything from Gerald against the warfare state or the wars, just attacks on people like Rachel Corrie, Martin Luther King, Desmond Tutu, Cynthia McKinney, Nelson Mandela and so on, accusing them of working for imperialism, and attacks on workers, strikes, unions, the Green Party and so on. Today he has tried to bring Craig, Miles and Marvin X into internal dissent. Is this why he's here? I have engaged him, he responds with evasions and false accusations, make up stories and lies. I have now decided to ignore him.
--- On Fri, 7/31/09, Gerald Ali.
From: Gerald Ali.
Subject: Re: [blackantiwar] Adaoma finally admits support for Zionism.
To: blackantiwar@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 4:08 PM
I have already answered the question as to whether a one Palestinian state or a two state solution, the question was to you and liljoe.
Neither of you have posted in favour of a Palestinian state and the removal of the Israeli state. So we now all know what your real position is, in favour of a two state solution.
Exactly the same as Obama and McKinney. Exactly the same as the Zionists and the imperialists.
So its not hard for people to work out as to why McKinney suddenly went on a boat ride in the med', just as the convoy in Britain, which had already been announced, was collecting in goods, and readying the vehicles.
She made next to no preparation for it, she collected next to nothing, strange when one really thinks of it, the last convoy was started in the USA, a million dollars at least, large scale collection, large amounts donated, but none of it to McKinney, all she had was a suitcase of crayons. And that when the people in palestine wanted notebooks and laptops, for educational purposes, does she think they are all primitives ?
Has she an attitude problem ?
Just as obama became President, she was member of the democrats for years, then she accepted an invitation to stand as candidate from the green party, so she did, fat lot of chance of winning. She left the democrats, why ? Why didn't she try to stand for them as candidate, she not much politically is she.
Straw arguments, and red herrings, a speciality of both of you, will not change what has now been drawn out of you, both equivocate.
Why were you not honest enough to admit your position ?
You've just admitted as well, that you both are liars.
It was obvious to all other members what you both supported, as both of you support revisionist Christianity, and social democrat polices..
Adaoma --- Since your position is so "clear", that there should be an end to the state of Israel. How do you propose that it should be "ended".
Simple, by handing over to the Palestinians, how else ? Who else would be running a Palestinian state ?
Adaoma --- Since you are against two States, Palestine and Israel co-existing. What do propose happens to the State of Israel
If it's to be a Palestinian state, then the question of 'what happens to an Israeli state'', is fatuous is it not, there won't be one to worry about.
The idiot policy of 'co-existence was proved to be fallacious long ago.
Adaoma ------ This is one is a couple of dozen questions that you avoid. So what's it going to be this time?
I've not avoided any question, I've said previously that all the answers are already in previous posts, I've also clearly explained to all members the you ignoring the fact that the answers are already there, doesn't prove they are not. So go look, as you are not far behind the copy/paste boy. Your red herrings just stink they don't do anything else.
No point trying the 'this time either' as the members are not as illiterate as you and liljeo try to make them out to be, they can read, they have memories, so maybe both of you should stop insulting them.
Adaoma --- St Gerald Ali calls for the end of State of Israel...by Hamas
Your subject line is as stupid as it's author, since when did you have the power to 'create '' saints ? Straw argument and ad hominem attack, against the person not the argument, another admission.
Since when did I say anything about Hamas in this discussion ?
Liljoe has mentioned hamas, stop picking up camel excrement from your god.
An adoma argument, red herring liljoe style.
Republican in drag.
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----- Original Message -----
To: blackantiwar@ yahoogroups. com ; talknigeria@ yahoogroups. com
Cc: laborpartypraxis@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:31 PM
Subject: [blackantiwar] St Gerald Ali calls for the end of State of Israel...by Hamas
My position is clear, end the state of Israel, something that I see again that you do not support, you want a state of Israel, as its in your perverted history books..
St Gerald Ali
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/blackantiw ar/message/ 9607
Since your position is so "clear", that there should be an end to the state of Israel. How do you propose that it should be "ended".. Since you are against two States, Palestine and Israel co-existing. What do propose happens to the State of Israel?
This is one is a couple of dozen questions that you avoid. So whats it going to be this time?
Are you a coward or are you a revolutionary?